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eMusic's non-DRM music store creeps into 2nd place
comment: 71 | Monday, July 31 (2006) 10:57AM | Posted by Lone
Most people like music. Most people don't like DRM.

A new USA Today article tells the story of how upstart eMusic, a purveyor of DRM-free MP3 music, is climbing over the top of some of the veterans in the digital download business (like Napster and Rhapsody), who sell music embedded with DRM. All of this despite the fact that the eMusic store lacks most of the popular record labels.

Apple has sold nearly 60 million iPods since 2001, and music fans regularly frequent the company's iTunes online store to buy songs for their iPods — giving iTunes a nearly 70% share of the music-download market.

Rivals Napster, Rhapsody, Yahoo Music and others compete with similar online offerings. Their songs don't play easily on iPods, however, hindering their growth.

Then there's eMusic and its more than 1 million songs, which do play on iPods — and the company isn't shy about letting customers know. "Get 25 free iPod-compatible downloads just for trying us out," eMusic says in its current TV ad.

Like Napster and Rhapsody, eMusic is a subscription service. Unlike those of its competitors, eMusic customers fully own the songs after downloading, with no restrictions. How does it do that? EMusic's songs are unprotected MP3s, which means they play on any device. Rivals sell copy-protected songs aimed at preventing unauthorized trading on file-sharing networks.

EMusic's supplying labels don't worry about such trading because eMusic users tend to be older, sophisticated music fans who are less likely to engage in online song-swapping.


Here's the January to May market share order according to the NPD research group:

Market share for online music retailers:

Apple iTunes: 67%
eMusic: 11%
Real Rhapsody: 4%
Napster: 4%
MSN Music: 3%


via iLounge
Comments

koppite1

Comments: 248
Jul 31 (2006) 12:30PM  

Even though I'll keep buying CDs until they get rid from shops

Yay for eMusic
Nay for the music industry

Wonder what the suits make of this?

Gotta love the casual music fans DRM-free - will work on iPod! Never!

P.S. Love to see the constructive use of the chatterbox thing lol



XooM

Comments: 57
Jul 31 (2006) 01:29PM  

huzzah! i actually might bite on this place.

anybody know bitrates they offer, etc?
EDIT: appears to be VBR 0 (definitely VBR, not sure on the level of quality) and 10 bucks a month gives you 40 downloads.
[ edited Jul 31 (2006) 01:30PM ]



Saijin_Naib
Location: Warren, NJ
Comments: 927
Jul 31 (2006) 01:32PM  

I donno, i just browsed the site and they make no mention of it (atleast I didnt find any) so im not sure. Im assuming 128-256?



XooM

Comments: 57
Jul 31 (2006) 01:33PM  

they've got it mentioned (briefly) on the about page. they say stuff like "highest quality VBR" which i'd assume to be -v 0



Allen
Location: Dub Vee Ooo
Comments: 1511
Jul 31 (2006) 02:53PM  

Maybe these guys will force the others to innovate.... Yeah I know... wishful thinking...



bigboy

Comments: 2
Jul 31 (2006) 03:20PM  

I must be an older sophisticated music fan then. Can't see the vbr setting, though they use LAME. They say they use vbr avg at 192kb. To me, they sound the same as stuff ripped at vbr 2.



Steve

Comments: 1197
Jul 31 (2006) 05:49PM  

67 + 11 + 4 + 4 + 3 = 89

Where's the other 11% ??

f'kn tards.





Dinko

Comments: 23
Jul 31 (2006) 05:49PM  

DBPowerAMP ID info says tracks have an average bit rate of about 184.

The problem I had with eMusic is that not all tracks downloaded properly. Some of the tracks downloaded fully, but the last 20-30% of the cue was silence. On a 15-minute cue for example, 3-5 minutes were silence.
Redownloading the same tracks eats on your credits. So you have that many tracks less to download.

They might have fixed that bug since then.



Echo_

Comments: 60
Jul 31 (2006) 06:33PM  

steve its called others 11%



Steve

Comments: 1197
Jul 31 (2006) 07:51PM  

steve its called others 11%


If that's true it should have been in the article; leaving it out is retarded. Especially when 11% is ~300% of most listed companies market share. You don't publish percent market share that adds up to 89% unless you're an idiot.
[ edited Jul 31 (2006) 07:54PM ]



aniym

Comments: 65
Jul 31 (2006) 08:41PM  

Others-11%?

More plausibly, none-11%

How many of you actually use subscription/download services? Yeah, didn't think so.



zip22

Comments: 1818
Jul 31 (2006) 08:59PM  

no. when talking about market share in this context, you would not include people who do not purchase from online music retailers. the whole online music market market is 100%. you could study what percentage of people buy cds, download legally, or download illegally, but it isn't useful to further subdivide the legal download section. the fractions would become too small and it would be useless. it makes more sense to zoom in on that segment (make that the while pie) and then slice it up - which is what they did here.

i guarantee the percentage of people who use legal online music retailers is much less than 89% of the entire music market.

the 11% must include the other retailers. walmart, aol, virgin, connect, and the other tiny outfits that i don't even know the names of.

[ edited Jul 31 (2006) 09:03PM ]



Steve

Comments: 1197
Jul 31 (2006) 09:16PM  

More plausibly, none-11%


It's not talking about the entire population. 'none' makes no sense. They're talking about the percent share of online music sales, whatever they are. If 10 million tracks a year are sold then Apple has sold 6,700,000 of them, eMusic has sold 1,100,000 of them, Real has sold 400,000 of them, Napster has sold 400,000 of them, and MSN has sold 300,000 of them. That leaves 1,100,000 tracks unaccounted for. You can't say no one bought them because by definition someone bought them, that's how many were sold. It may be that other smaller companies sold the remaining tracks, but they don't say that. If that's what they meant why not say it? It's one small line to add, but they didn't, they left the total at 89%, which is false. By definition there was 100% sold of however many were sold.



undesign

Comments: 805
Jul 31 (2006) 09:20PM  

The only way this service will pwn itunes (as it already does anyway, but it needs to appeal to the sheep) is if it somehow manages and transfers choons to the ipod or other device, ums or not (ie; ipod, in the sense that it doesnt not allow taking back choons off without shoddy 3rd party software).

Anyway.....maybe some one already knows how that software works? Im on mac so i have no idea....



Steve

Comments: 1197
Jul 31 (2006) 09:43PM  

Undesign, they're selling music not software. Since they're unprotected mp3's you could put them on an ipod or any player by whatever method the player uses. Also since they're non-drm'd you could make as many copies as you want so taking them off the ipod again would be less of an issue. The CEO of eMusic believes most of his market share is coming from ipod users, probably the smarter ones.



undesign

Comments: 805
Jul 31 (2006) 10:27PM  

steve: yes but how does a user buy the music? through software, i suppose, right? its gotta have some sort of mp3 organizer or something??

the only way to beat itunes is if they integrate the lazy sheeps ipod to their service making it easier for the consumer, otherwise, theyr not going to care.



Lone

Comments: 973
Jul 31 (2006) 11:09PM  

And thus 'eTunes' was born...



Dominic
Location: Ireland.
Comments: 2408
Aug 01 (2006) 04:00AM  

undesign i am in 100% agreement with you (No Sarcasm).But they'll also need a bigger library, which is where they'll fail.



Steve

Comments: 1197
Aug 01 (2006) 06:11AM  

steve: yes but how does a user buy the music? through software, i suppose, right? its gotta have some sort of mp3 organizer or something??


Well, it doesn't have to. Personally i'd like it better if it didn't. I don't think they're trying to compete with itunes, they're competing with drm. People who buy mp3's at eMusic can still use itunes to organize or tell them what they like or whatever the hell they do with it.



Dominic
Location: Ireland.
Comments: 2408
Aug 01 (2006) 06:34AM  

steve that is true, but a hell of a lot of itune users do not know where their music library is, or how to find it. itunes rips the music, searches the computer for music files, and downloads songs all into the itunes music folder (unless otherwise specified). all the music appears in itunes and to your joe ipod user that is where the music is. Having to locate/move files can get awfully complicated and is a chore ipod users (not all) do not want to deal with.

emusic are not going directly after itunes, none the less they are competing with itunes, drm-free is their niche (i agree with you that they are competing with drm)

[ edited Aug 01 (2006) 07:33AM ]



pableu
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Comments: 19
Aug 01 (2006) 06:42AM  

@Saijin_Naib & XooM
It says somewhere in the FAQs that they encode with lame 3.92 with --alt-preset standard.
I like eMusic. But the Downloader-App sucks.. I preferred the way downloading from allofmp3 works



pecker

Comments: 501
Aug 01 (2006) 06:51AM  

@steve....isnt it obvious to someone as clever as you, to realise that the other 11% will be smaller companies which will only take up 0.8% n 1% of the market.

Yes they should have stated "Other 11%" but i cant see how you can call them retarded for missing out a piece of information that is so very very obvious

And i would like to know the numbers not the %. As limewire, bearshare etc will surely have the real download population? i know this talks about legal downloads though



aniym

Comments: 65
Aug 01 (2006) 07:19AM  

ok, sorry about that...i thought the survey was done using a targeted statistical sample, which might still have resulted in some users who primarily purchase CDs, use P2P networks etc, but would have a majority of users who use subscription services. The Itunes share threw me off. I thought it'd be much higher than 67%



Lone

Comments: 973
Aug 01 (2006) 07:20AM  

"itunes rips the music, searches the computer for music files, and downloads songs all into the itunes music folder (unless otherwise specified). all the music appears in itunes and to you joe ipod user that is where the music is. "

Very true. At my job I often have to ask customers where on the hard drive their music is if they want i t backed up. They never answer "My Music" or "Music." It's always "iTunes" or "Windows Media Player."





Pierre LaStank

Comments: 8
Aug 01 (2006) 08:45AM  

Never having posted here (that I can remember), it is unfortunate that the reason that I feel compelled to now is the overwhelming arrogance of one particular person. I’m not sure why “undesign” feels it necessary to put down people at every opportunity. Actually, let me be more accurate. The vast majority of posts that I have read that have been made by him/her are nothing more than insults that serve no other purpose than to prop him/her up as a wise sage that “knows better” than the “sheep”. This is a theme throughout those posts. I’m not sure why it is necessary to insult anyone who chooses to use an iPod over whatever the flavor of the month happens to be at the time. It is one thing to express opinions on what his/her personal preference is, it is entirely another to constantly spew his/her vitriol and degrading anyone whom does not agree with him/her. I can only imagine what it must be like to be so self important that my way is the only way.

Before you assume anything, no I do not use an iPod. Currently. At this time, I have an aging 60gb Zen Xtra and a 20gb PMC. I have used an iPod in the past and did in fact like it for what it was/is. It’s a decent enough player that meets the needs of those that are happy with it. Easy to use as well. Though it has been made clear that in his/her opinion “easy to use” translates into “lazy user”. Personally, I don’t really care what you or anyone else here uses, I’m just happy for you if you have found a player that meets your needs regardless of what brand it is.

No doubt Undesign has some valuable comments and opinions to share in this community, it is too bad that it ends up buried by the sheer arrogance that is palpable in the majority of them that I have read.

Have a nice day.



musicman

Comments: 338
Aug 01 (2006) 08:52AM  

"No doubt Undesign has some valuable comments and opinions to share in this community"

Nah, he doesn't, just bile by the bucketful.



undesign

Comments: 805
Aug 01 (2006) 09:29AM  

Pierre: if u lived in toronto and were flooded with a million sheep/ipodders whilst u ureself being exposed to two of the ipods worst faults, youd be pissed off too.



Pierre LaStank

Comments: 8
Aug 01 (2006) 10:18AM  

I do not know what the particular problems are that you faced, but it does not matter to anyone other than you. Feel free to make your own choices. If there is a product that you do not like because of some perceived or actual problem that you experienced, feel free to never buy that product again. It’s YOUR choice. Everyone else here (and in Toronto) has the same right to make a choice that is right for him or her. Some people look at ease of use and stability of software as features that are just as important to them as a built in fm radio tuner or drag and drop are to others. That’s the nice thing about having options.

If you have had problems, it would be more helpful to others if you shared your experiences and your reasoning behind your decision to not purchase an iPod for yourself rather than continuing to insult people who do not share that opinion. Apparently the entire city of Toronto is now in need of sheering.

No doubt there are many people who buy the iPod because they are fashionistas who like to jump on a bandwagon no matter what it is (I was the beneficiary of this when I sold my 20gb model for close to what I paid for it). I would also argue that quite a few, if not the majority of them own one because it does what it says on the tin.

I would not presume that I speak for anyone else here beside myself. I have been skulking around this site for around 2 years now (ever since I bought my first Neuros I) and have found the community to be a very good one. There are disagreements by the members from time to time, but people for the most part are constructive and at least show SOME measure of reason in their comments. Yours, unfortunately come across as unyielding and haughty.

Get over it. Like what you like and let others like what they want.




undesign

Comments: 805
Aug 01 (2006) 11:12AM  

pierre; ive explained myself countless times and posted factual faults about it, it gets tiresome after a while, so now i rather post a single comment like "lazy sheep" then go deep into the repetitive flame war with ppl like zip22. besides, everyone knows what problems the ipod has, its common knowledge these days, ipods are rampant and overwhelming, everyone knwos that too, even zip22.

now, if u dont like my comments, noones pointing a gun to your head forcing you to read them, if i were u, id take my online crap with a grain of salt, i KNOW i come off as an arrogant dick, but with good reason, i dont bend the truth like others *cough*zip22*cough*

Thank you.



Will

Comments: 75
Aug 01 (2006) 11:21AM  

I have used eMusic since one year now and have just expanded my basic annual subscription for another year. eMusic is by far the best online music store I know of. Especially in combination with Last.fm it truly rocks.



Pierre LaStank

Comments: 8
Aug 01 (2006) 11:55AM  

I do very much take what you say with a grain of salt, and generally do skip over your comments as they are typically devoid of anything even remotely intelligent. Even in your resposes above you can not refrain from insulting others and in general being pompous. Your loved ones must be very proud.

I have read your “discussions” with zip22. In fact, it was one of those discussions that crystallized to me just how ridiculous it all is. You argue until your blue in the face PREFERENCE. Good luck with that. Not sure why it’s so important to you to belittle others and to be an “arrogant dick”, but have no doubt that you are very good at it. Surely friends and family are aware of this skill as well.

If the fact that iPods are rampant is causing you such duress, you may want to think about why it means so much to you what others use. Is it that you know so much better? As for their problems, yes there are some. As far as I can tell, there is not a single perfect DAP (or anything else) out there. So what? Don’t buy one and move on.

I am sure that you have at some point in time spoken of the problems that you had with your iPod, I either missed them or do not remember them. I also understand that you would not want to keep repeating them. It gets tedious. However, so do your constant attacks.

To everyone else here (moderators included) I apologize for the off topic remarks and understand if you feel that they need to be deleted. Here I am railing on about being constructive and not constantly yapping about ones own agenda and I am doing that very thing. My frustration got the better of me.




Saijin_Naib
Location: Warren, NJ
Comments: 927
Aug 01 (2006) 12:03PM  

@ will what is last.fm? And have you verified the quality of the tracks? And someone earlier mentiond the download application being a little touchy and corrupting tracks. Have you had the same negative experience, or was that an isolated problem?



zip22

Comments: 1818
Aug 01 (2006) 01:07PM  

Pierre wrote ...
My frustration got the better of me.


welcome to dapreview. i'm not sure what the situation is, but the last topic undesign drew off course with his belittling comments was closed. it was the first i've seen on this site. maybe we'll see more, maybe he'll go on another vacation. either way, a large majority of the posters are willing to debate civilly without the cliches and derogatory remarks.

i really like the direction things are going. yahoo released that drm free mp3 download a week or 2 ago and emusic is doing very well for itself despite the fact that it doesn't have much main stream music. as soon as we can get our choice of drm-free file types (including lossless), i'll start considering buying music online.
[ edited Aug 01 (2006) 01:07PM ]



Saijin_Naib
Location: Warren, NJ
Comments: 927
Aug 01 (2006) 01:15PM  

zip do you buy CD and rip to aac? What format do you prefer? I stick with mp3 myself because all my players support it natively, but ogg is tempting..



zip22

Comments: 1818
Aug 01 (2006) 01:22PM  

the last year i have been using flac when i buy cds. i'll make a lame mp3 copy for use on my shuffle. i have said it before, but a 4gb alac playing shuffle would make me happy.



Saijin_Naib
Location: Warren, NJ
Comments: 927
Aug 01 (2006) 01:27PM  

possibility of hacked firmware? Ipods should have a large dev base because they have such a huge community...



zip22

Comments: 1818
Aug 01 (2006) 01:38PM  

no, i tend to keep on top of things. neither rockbox nor ipodlinux support the ipod shuffle and i have never seen a firmware hack that functionally changes the ipod (there is ipodwizard to change fonts and icons - but nothing other than eye candy).



Saijin_Naib
Location: Warren, NJ
Comments: 927
Aug 01 (2006) 01:41PM  

Thats kinda dissapointing... Someone out there has to have the time and knowledge to be able to do that kind of thing. Why not? My guess is because you cant watch porn on a shuffle, so its not worth their time. Im serious... Doesnt ipod linux allow for new formats? my roomate had it on his g4 photo and could watch movies and stuff on it... granted they were uncompressed but they worked..



Pierre LaStank

Comments: 8
Aug 01 (2006) 01:44PM  

@zip22: Actually, it was me that hijacked the thread.

I have used emusic on a couple of different occasions and have been very impressed with the quality of the tracks. My only gripe with them is the subscription type model that they use. It’s not subscription in the same way that Napster or Rhapsody is, but there is still a monthly bill. I found that they had a fantastic selection of independent artists and if you are into exploring non-popular music, it is hard to beat. It was pretty easy to use with whatever method of file management that you use as well. If it’s iTunes, drag and drop the files onto the window and it will add them to the library and organize them how you have set it up; other media players are similar. If you use drag and drop… well… just drag and drop them…

I do wish that there were an option to buy tracks/albums ala carte but I suppose that you can’t have it all.




Saijin_Naib
Location: Warren, NJ
Comments: 927
Aug 01 (2006) 01:46PM  

Did you contact them? Im sure that wouldnt be too hard for them to implement?



zip22

Comments: 1818
Aug 01 (2006) 01:57PM  

your posts technically did, but the derogatory terms undesign uses in his posts don't add anything to the discussion and only serve to provoke replies which derail the topic. if he hadn't used "sheep" or "lazy sheep" it probably wouldn't have incited a reply from you, would it?

by the way
undesign wrote ...
in the sense that it doesnt not allow taking back choons off without shoddy 3rd party software

[Linky] is not shoddy third party software. neither is the windows explorer and itunes combination.



[ edited Aug 01 (2006) 01:59PM ]



Saijin_Naib
Location: Warren, NJ
Comments: 927
Aug 01 (2006) 02:01PM  

It cant be shoddy, its mascot is a monkey! Monkeys never lie....



srika
Location: Chicago
Comments: 50
Aug 01 (2006) 02:02PM  

Re: last.fm

It's great. It's a tracking service that keeps track of the music you listen to. It is available for a number of players - I use mine with Winamp - it consists of a plugin called Audioscrobbler that interfaces with the last.fm website. You get statistics about your music listening - most listened to tracks, artists, etc. You can see friends lists, send messages, those kinds of things. It's very interesting to see what your listening habits are.

here's my list, for example.



Steve

Comments: 1197
Aug 01 (2006) 02:08PM  

@steve....isnt it obvious to someone as clever as you, to realise that the other 11% will be smaller companies which will only take up 0.8% n 1% of the market.

Yes they should have stated "Other 11%" but i cant see how you can call them retarded for missing out a piece of information that is so very very obvious


I'm sorry, but the only thing obvious to me is they're wrong for not accounting for 100%. I will not assume they mean the other 11% are smaller conpanies. That's not my responsibilty. It's their responsibility to provide useful numbers. It's their business for god's sake, and they're lousy at it.



zip22

Comments: 1818
Aug 01 (2006) 02:25PM  

the story was about emusic. the rankings are just to provide a nice chart. saying "other 11%" confuses the chart, as "other" beats out the bottom 3. adding the other companies would probably be useless as well, since thier numbers are all obviously lower than the top 5. this would dilute the chart. as it was printed, its a nice comparison of the top 5. there are many more than 5 companies selling music online, and they account for the rest of the market, but the top 5 companies have 89% of the market. the only thing that concerns the article at all is that emusic is second. they could have left it at that, but showing just how far behind 3rd, 4th and 5th are further enhances the point. adding in the bottom 11% with god knows how many companies wouldn't add anything. chances are, the error in the study would be more than the values assigned to each company.


if theres a marathon and i'm writing an article about the guy who got second behind flash while everyone else was 5 minutes+ behind him, i'll post the top 5 finishers. its a good summary of the important action. around my guy.


[ edited Aug 01 (2006) 02:43PM ]



Lacene
Location: Standing Here, Confused By Your
Comments: 841
Aug 01 (2006) 02:41PM  

including the "other = 11%" wouldn't confuse the chart, IMO, as it would surely indicate a lump sum of many, smaller services.....otherwise, if it was another 1 or 2 services, they would've just named them, instead of saying "other"....

on the other hand, not including the "other = 11%" doesn't confuse the overall chart for me, because I'm used to reading these things, and can interpret fairly well....

I guess what I'm trying to say is......I don't know

except that I think it was me that shut down the other news post, with my last comment.....

the "cooked eggs" and "fried bacon" comments gets them every time......
[ edited Aug 01 (2006) 02:42PM ]



zip22

Comments: 1818
Aug 01 (2006) 02:49PM  

at least i haven't heard of many apple laptops spotaneously bursting into flames. i saw a comparison of a macbook and a dell, both did pretty crappy temperature-wise. the macbook averaged 1.675 degrees hotter.
[ edited Aug 01 (2006) 02:49PM ]



Lacene
Location: Standing Here, Confused By Your
Comments: 841
Aug 01 (2006) 02:54PM  

well, I'd post the links for you, zip, but that would get this thread locked......


hate to do that, to such an educating thread.... :\



zip22

Comments: 1818
Aug 01 (2006) 03:04PM  

the ibook on the carpet? i'd be more scared of the seemingly spontaneous combustion of the dell's. i know better than to set a laptop on carpet.



Dominic
Location: Ireland.
Comments: 2408
Aug 01 (2006) 03:24PM  

"at least i haven't heard of many apple laptops spotaneously bursting into flames"

you say many, did you in fact mean any?or have you heard of some but not alot, thus you haven't heard of many, in which case you have heard of some apple laptops spontaneously bursting into flames....

enough said, back on topic please fellas.



zip22

Comments: 1818
Aug 01 (2006) 03:34PM  

i originally said any, changed it to many after i remembered the ibook on the carpet. i guess i haven't heard of 2. there have been at least 2 dells that have burst into flame in recent months, and i believe there was a report that there were others that just hadn't been photographed, but had been returned to dell.

point being, apple has had one case on carpet (which makes sense - carpet blocks the vents and the laptop overheats). the dell video and pictures were on a tabletop. doesn't make much sense and there have been twice as many documented incidents. percentage wise, dell probably wins with least flaming laptop images online since they have probably sold many times more than apple. logically, on the carpet seems like less of a threat than sitting on a conference table.

in the end, according to the comparison, apple's aren't that hot compared to the competition. just like rhapsody, napster, and msn aren't that hot compared to itunes and emusic. (even though emusic isn't all that hot compared to itunes, its lack of drm gives it +20 hotness points).

i wonder if microsoft's urge will provide the necessary hotness to make the online music business burst into flames.
[ edited Aug 01 (2006) 03:36PM ]



Steve

Comments: 1197
Aug 01 (2006) 03:43PM  

I won't keep repeating the same argument, this will be my last comment on this subject. If you're comfortable guessing what the missing 11% represents, fine. I"m not.

Zip, I understand where you're coming from but I disagree that including 'Others - 11%' would have added confusion. On the contrary.

And comparing iTunes to The Flash? [church lady] Isn't that special [church lady/]




Lacene
Location: Standing Here, Confused By Your
Comments: 841
Aug 01 (2006) 03:45PM  

so, Steve, that means you're signing up for emusic??


zip22 wrote ...

i wonder if microsoft's urge will provide the necessary hotness to make the online music business burst into flames.


doubtful, since that's not Microsoft's goal.....
[ edited Aug 01 (2006) 03:48PM ]



Steve

Comments: 1197
Aug 01 (2006) 03:59PM  

so, Steve, that means you're signing up for emusic??


I don't know where I implied that, but I am thinking about it. It comes very close to matching my idea of an ideal online music retailer: It costs about 25 cents a song and there's no drm. That's what I always said was what would be a fair deal for compressed music. I think I will sign up.



zip22

Comments: 1818
Aug 01 (2006) 03:59PM  

i dont have to guess, i know the missing 11% represents walmart, aol, virgin, connect, and the other tiny outfits that i don't even know the names of who each have 3% or less of the market share. they are irrelevent to the topic of the article.

what is microsoft's goal? i thought it was the whole package thing apple has going on. that would include its music download serivce.



Lacene
Location: Standing Here, Confused By Your
Comments: 841
Aug 01 (2006) 04:18PM  

@Steve: I know you didn't imply, but I was trying to help you keep to topic...

@zip: unless you're just using "Urge" as a name to reference what content management service Microsoft will ultimately offer.....from what I'm reading, Microsoft's service for the Zune will be entirely different from Urge, even from Windows Media Player.....

what is microsoft's goal? i thought it was the whole package thing apple has going on. that would include its music download serivce.


what is it's goal?? I think they are going to try to incorporate pretty much every internet-community thing out there that's popular, right now: not just the typical audio/video download service, but also aspects of youtube, chatrooms, Xbox Live, even AOL.....try to create a A/V content purchase/management service that's also a virtual community site.......

[ edited Aug 01 (2006) 04:24PM ]



zip22

Comments: 1818
Aug 01 (2006) 04:25PM  

you don't think the zune will use wmp 11? hmm...

i think it would be silly to have wmp and a separate application for the player. it makes more sense to just have one. i can see where you're coming from, though. it doesn't seem like they would just use the things we already know about.



Michael
Location: New York City
Comments: 2802
Aug 01 (2006) 04:26PM  

Let's keep it on topic


Topic being: eMusic's non-DRM music store creeps into 2nd place
[ edited Aug 01 (2006) 04:27PM ]



Steve

Comments: 1197
Aug 01 (2006) 04:27PM  

@Zip, unless you've seen the real numbers that NPD or USA Today chose not to release, you're guessing.

@Lacene, thanks, and I did sign up.



zip22

Comments: 1818
Aug 01 (2006) 04:30PM  

are you implying that some of the things they didn't include would have more than 3% of the market? if that is true, then yes it is a messed up comparison. but do you honestly believe they would do that? occam's razor...



Steve

Comments: 1197
Aug 01 (2006) 04:34PM  

are you implying that some of the things they didn't include would have more than 3% of the market? if that is true, then yes it is a messed up comparison. but do you honestly believe they would do that? occam's razor...


Of course i'm not implying that. But I don't know, and I won't guess.



Echo_

Comments: 60
Aug 01 (2006) 09:48PM  

steve i dont see how the missing 11% is a big deal so get off that topic



Steve

Comments: 1197
Aug 01 (2006) 10:30PM  

@echo, I expressed awhile back that I was tired of it as well, and I am. The last few posts I made on the subject I was simply replying to peoples questions or trying to clarify earlier statements. I'm sick of it and I hope no one brings it up again, and i'll try not to respond if they do.



epithetless
Location: Boston, Mass
Comments: 150
Aug 02 (2006) 10:15AM  

Hi DAPreviewers! Longtime lurker, first time poster...Thought I'd finally sign up to comment on my experience with emusic, which I've been using for a number of months now. I personally think it's nothing but great. True, the subscription-only restriction kept me away for awhile, but then I thought about all the used CDs I'd typically buy in a month...and how I could get 90 DRM-free --alt-preset standard MP3s for the price of just two of those CDs...and I quickly took the plunge. No regrets to date.

I have not personally verified the --alt-preset standard claim (it is in the FAQ somewhere), but the files I get are of the proper size and bitrates. I suppose someone could go to the trouble of downloading a track they alread have on CD and then ripping the CD track to compare...but I'm not wasting a download for that. Sorry, folks.

As for reports of the download application being shoddy, that has never been my experience. Downloads are quick and bug-free here.

Something of note is that previously purchased tracks CAN be redownloaded, as many times as desired, at no additional cost. A running tally of everything you purchase is stored in the "Download" section of your profile and can be accessed at any time.

A perk of membership that hasn't been mentioned yet is the inclusion of user-submitted comments/playlists/recommendations. I find them surprisingly helpful when I'm bouncing between artists I haven't heard before.

Yup. So. Hope this helps some of you out a bit...as an independent/eclectic music lover and emusic devotee, I'd be happy to answer any questions out there...



Saijin_Naib
Location: Warren, NJ
Comments: 927
Aug 02 (2006) 10:59AM  

Welcome, great first post! Its good to have someone on the inside



tspoon

Comments: 1
Aug 02 (2006) 02:07PM  

I also registered just to comment on this, and have a couple of things to add. I have subscribed to Emusic for just over a year now, and can definitely recommend them, especially if you like Indie/Obscure stuff.
They have obviously partnered up with All Music Guide, as the reviews for releases are identical to AMG's. This is a bonus for me as AMG was already my preferred music review site.
I can verify (using Mr Question Man software) that the tracks are encoded using Lame APS/V2. The latest download I have is an album released in 2002. It was encoded using Lame 3.92 APS. There may be a possibility that some albums from the very early days of Emusic may not be APS but a slightly different, slightly lower bitrate vbr. I can't confirm that, it was a rumour I read on another forum.
Go Emusic!! I could never support a music service where I was only renting the music, or where I could only do what THEY allowed me to do with the downloads. People don't seem to realise that if they want to change to a new brand of player, their downloaded music library could be worthless. It amazes me that such business practices (scams) are even allowed to exist.



TheBigNewt

Comments: 6
Aug 03 (2006) 10:09AM  

Can you listen to everything all the way through b4 you download, like allofmp3?



Lacene
Location: Standing Here, Confused By Your
Comments: 841
Aug 03 (2006) 01:43PM  

ya r'ly!

(actually, I haven't got a clue )



epithetless
Location: Boston, Mass
Comments: 150
Aug 03 (2006) 07:36PM  

Can you listen to everything all the way through b4 you download, like allofmp3?

Wait, you can preview an entire track in allofmp3? Everything I've sampled there is either a 30 sec. or 90 sec. clip.

On emusic, they only provide 30 sec. clips (but of considerably better sound quality than allofmp3, FWIW).



Sebhelyesfarku

Comments: 400
Aug 05 (2006) 02:11AM  

"at least i haven't heard of many apple laptops spotaneously bursting into flames"

it's called PowerBook 5300, Apple invented the burning laptop in the 90s



Will

Comments: 75
Aug 05 (2006) 06:08AM  

"Saijin_Naib" wrote ...
@ will what is last.fm? And have you verified the quality of the tracks? And someone earlier mentiond the download application being a little touchy and corrupting tracks. Have you had the same negative experience, or was that an isolated problem?

Last.fm is, as srika already mentioned earlier, an individual radio channel that analyzes your musical taste and makes recommendations, either in your profile on the website or directly on a radio channel.

I'm registered at Last.fm since 10/2004 and have found a lot of new music through it. It's really great though pretty complex, so you should take some time to get used to it.
My profile can be found here.

I only have one track from eMusic that is corrupted, don't know if the download manager is guilty. Haven't redownloaded it yet. Nevertheless, you can disable the download manager and download the songs just like any other data with your browser or dedicated download manager. The audio quality is really great.



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Lacene
The ZVM is pretty much the most "high-end" DAP I ever got....I got started on DAPs by getting a Dell Pocket DJ, lol. It was a re-branded Creative DAP. All others I got are Sandisk DAPs....

Saijin_Naib
Yeah, I used to remember when I was jealous of Creative DAPs. I couldn't afford to have the "top of the line" DAPs back then, and messed with no-name Chinese OEMs.

These days, you're almost better off taking that route.

Cowon still seems to put out quality. Samsung just makes Android players, same for Archos.

MPIO (my favorite) has become defunct.

These are dark times for DAPs

Lacene
I still have my ZVM that I got when they first came out....it still works and looks like new...I never abused it and put one of those clear protective shields on it and got a silicon case for it.

A shame that Creative put it out - their most highly-regarded DAP ever - and then seemed to go downhill immediately afterwards...

Saijin_Naib
Yeah, I played with one. Pretty slick, great interface. So great in fact, that Apple largely knocked it off and sued Creative to keep the rights. Bastards.

I have a Creative Zen Vision Micro 6gb I need to repair/swap drive out of.

LiQuiD_FuSioN
Anyone have experience with the Creative ZEN Vision:M? Now that was a cool looking player too, never got to try one out though.

Saijin_Naib
Yeah, my friend had the S9 and he really loved it, especially the custom GUIs people would cook up.

I noticed that Cowon recently released a D20 and an X9. They both look rather tempting. Availability looks spotty at the moment though :L

My favorite DAP probably would have been the Zune30, if it was slightly more customizable. The RIO players had great auto-playlisting & searching support.

Similarly, the Haier Ibiza (despite its other shortcomings) has a brilliant filter feature and related features during playback.

It, however, can't make a shuffle list to save its digital life so it gets on my nerves using it as my car player.

Yeah, people still seem to love convergence devices. I'm still of the mind that I'd rather have devices that are designed for a specific task, and execute that task properly. The biggest pet peeve I have is crappy tools, and convergence devices by definition, are crappy tools. By attempting to do everything, they do no single task well.

SarahV
@Saijin: The J3 is one of the best DAPs I've had. The GUI is way better than the S9. The hardware is pretty similar. I still have a special place in my heart for the iRiver Clix, though. Loved the interface on that so much...

The problem we have today is that hardly anyone actually uses a DAP and they don't want to carry more than one device. I probably carry my mp3 player more than my phone, but I realize most people are not like me

Saijin_Naib
This community was tops. I still think we could be.

LiQuiD_FuSioN
Good ol' DAP Review! I still remember when Engadget would rip your stories off.

Saijin_Naib
That sounds like a decent size for a music library. How are you finding the Cowon? They seem to be one of the few manufactures left that makes anything halfway decent. I'm not interested in Yet Another Android Slate (YAAS) like the Archos line have devolved into.

But Sarah, the iProducts are the bestest things ever! Their batteries last like, totally way longer than like, other players do!


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