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New iPods - Longer Battery life, but Slower Performance?
comment: 45 | Thursday, September 13 (2007) 03:47AM | Posted by Michael
Last Saturday I ventured over to the Apple Store to check out the new iPods. While I was impressed by size of both the Classic and 3G Nano, I wasn't particularly "wowed" by the new interface. The main menu, now in split screen form, seemed too crowded for my tastes, and Coverflow was a bit sluggish with bringing up album covers.

Of course, these are just my initial impressions after spending a mere half-hour with the players. For a more in-depth analysis, I turn your attention to the reviews of iLounge, and ars technica. Both are filled to the brim with information, but two things stand out from the rest. First the good news. According to iLounge, the new iPods' battery life are remarkable:

3G iPod Nano

Audio: 30 hours, 21 minutes (24 hours rated)
Video: 5 hours, 47 minutes (5 hours rated)

80 GB iPod Classic

Audio: 36 hours, 16 minutes (30 hours rated)
Video: 6 hours, 46 minutes (5 hours rated)

160 GB iPod Classic

Audio: 58 hours, 14 minutes (40 hours rated)
Video: 9 hours, 28 minutes (7 hours rated)

Impressive numbers huh? I certainly think they are. Now onto the bad news. Ars Technica found the Classic performed much slower than its predecessor. Boot times were more than twice as long for the Classic, and navigating to a song took about 45% longer.


Click to Enlarge


The verdict is still out on whether these findings can be replicated. If I were shopping for an iPod Classic, it'd be hard to justify the player's strength in battery life, when its interface is seemingly lacking so much in performance.

Thanks zip22


Like all this juicy data we're providing you? Even if you don't, we have just a few more numbers to show ya. In last week's poll we asked you which iPod (if any) you were going to buy. As I expected, most voted for the iPod touch (28.85%), followed closely by the Classic (22.61%), and then the 3G Nano (8.68%). Another 5.61% couldn't decide what to buy.

See Complete Results
Comments

zip22

Comments: 1816
Sep 13 (2007) 07:13AM  

just a few notes, as you can see in the second graph, you don't need to wait for the menu transitions, you can hit the button again and actually move through faster than the previous generation. in addition, the boot numbers are for a cold boot. most of the time the ipod comes from a standby mode and does not cold boot. if you use the ipod on a daily basis, you should rarely even see a cold boot.

[ edited Sep 13 (2007) 07:51AM ]




ilh

Comments: 168
Sep 13 (2007) 08:21AM  

Cover flow is still sluggish.




Dominic
Location: Ireland.
Comments: 2405
Sep 13 (2007) 09:28AM  

One issue I had with the 5g ipod was it's sluggish menus, it really really annoyed me. I will definitely have to try out the classic before I buy it. If the menus are as sluggish then that may be enough to put me off the unit.




Pondlife

Comments: 529
Sep 13 (2007) 09:31AM  

As well as the speed test ars technica, did battery tests on the nanos too and got a less impressive figure for audio (around 24 hours) and a slightly more impressive figure for video (5 hours and 58 minutes) than the iLounge ones.

[Linky]



you don't need to wait for the menu transitions, you can hit the button again and actually move through faster than the previous generation.


As long as you don't need to see what you are selecting, doesn't sound that useful.




rhymesgalore

Comments: 14
Sep 13 (2007) 11:47AM  

you don't need to wait for the menu transitions, you can hit the button again and actually move through faster than the previous generation.


A whole hundredth of a second......




zip22

Comments: 1816
Sep 13 (2007) 01:25PM  

Pondlife wrote ...
As long as you don't need to see what you are selecting, doesn't sound that useful.


my understanding is that you are still doing the exact same selecting, just not waiting for the animation.




undesign

Comments: 801
Sep 13 (2007) 01:37PM  

A whole hundredth of a second......


lol, oh zip.....

and yes, coverflow *is* slow, its almost like playing doom 3 with an intel onboard video card. also, i dont think id ever use coverflow, its nowhere near as fast as scrolling down through a list, which also doesnt require you to have album art.




LiQuiD_FuSioN

Comments: 113
Sep 13 (2007) 02:30PM  

So, basically you just wouldn't use cover flow at all then? It's a shame that it's slow though. It seems as if they just rushed it out.




Michael
Location: New York City
Comments: 2798
Sep 13 (2007) 03:20PM  

As one of the most attractive new additions to the players, it is unfortunate, but I really didn't see Cover Flow as being more than eye candy anyway. I can't imagine looking for an album on a 160GB player via that method. The Nano's coverflow loaded noticeably quicker since it's flash based.




Three
Location: Tampa Bay
Comments: 92
Sep 13 (2007) 03:37PM  

I'm a special case, but Cover Flow is particularly useless to me since a great deal of my music is made up of concert bootlegs that often lack artwork. When they do have artwork, like the official Pearl Jam boots, there's no easy way to apply them - Manually applying artwork to over 60 albums in iTunes is no small task. I'm not sure there is an easy way, really, but that's my point.




Pondlife

Comments: 529
Sep 13 (2007) 04:09PM  

my understanding is that you are still doing the exact same selecting, just not waiting for the animation.


I was basing it on this.

if you know you just want to move on to the next item without viewing the next menu, you can mash the center button as fast as possible to move on.


They said they did that test to show that it was the UI and not the hardware slowing the process down.

I don't think it was the best way they could have tested it though.
[ edited Sep 13 (2007) 04:11PM ]




LiQuiD_FuSioN

Comments: 113
Sep 13 (2007) 06:45PM  

I just bought a 160GB iPod Classic today and I am very impressed.

I tested out the new Nano's today and yes, they are definitely slow and felt sluggish. However, the new iPod seemed to work pretty well at the time.

Right now, I finished loading my iPod with some music and videos and let me tell you, it works very well!

ONE THING that really worried me was that the "Cover Flow" feature would not load my albums correctly. But guys, let me tell you.. my albums all displayed correctly. Even if I have "Artist Feat. Artist" in my ID3 tags, it will still display only ONE single album art graphic. Hard to explain, but I hope you get what I'm saying. Gotta run for now!




HipHopScribe

Comments: 126
Sep 13 (2007) 07:25PM  

I received my Classic a few hours ago, I've spent most of that time picking what music to put on it (since I only went with the 80 gig I can't fit all of my music), but I haven't noticed any serious issues with the interface. I like the split screen aspect, it seems like a better use of space, where it would otherwise be completely wasted. Cover Flow takes a second to load, but going through it at a moderate speed and it works perfectly, if you going really quickly you can get ahead of it though, and have some unloaded cover. I don't see it as a big issue, since "Cover Flow" is nothing more than a gimmick on the Classic, when you get to that many albums it's not a useful method to go through them.

If the choice was between a faster interface and better battery life, the decision was the right one, the battery life is much more important than some slight sluggishness.

[ edited Sep 13 (2007) 07:26PM ]




iain1237

Comments: 67
Sep 13 (2007) 07:45PM  

I figure if you have an iPod and know what song you wish to play, you're going to be mashing the center button most of the time anyway so this 'slow' interface isn't so much of a problem.




jinp6301

Comments: 8
Sep 13 (2007) 08:44PM  

more info about the flaws of the 6G ipod here
[Linky]

i was so excited about the 160gb classic but after reading that it just makes me




undesign

Comments: 801
Sep 13 (2007) 09:27PM  

Actually, i gotta put another 2 cents into this.

I played around with both the ipod nano and ipod classic. The whole damn interface is slower than previous ipods. Everything has a slight glitch for some reason. Coverflow is particularly bad. I have to say, i dont like it. Its not horrendous but its a bit annoying, its almost like trying to play Need for Speed with an onboard video card....it runs, but not the way you want it to. The interface works sort of like my sony hd5; if u play a track and let the music go on for about half an hour, press 'fast forward' or something, the thing pauses for a second or two and then everything resumes to normal. Switching back and forth between tracks is instantaneous, menus show up immediately. It is only after that long break where everything but the track playing goes to sleep. Well, its kind of like that with the ipod classic, where everything and anything you do has a slight pause. By SLIGHT i mean a fraction of a second. Its annoying, but everything works just fine.

I have a feeling its due to the scrolling CD cover art in the menu and coverflow that bogs down the whole GUI. Id like to see those features be completely turned off or tossed at the users CHOICE (since apple claims to be a company that believes in choice, well steve jobs said it when he announced internet explorer for mac).




jinp6301

Comments: 8
Sep 13 (2007) 10:34PM  

there needs to be a firmware update, which would solve all this, but I think we all know that apple probably wont do that




zip22

Comments: 1816
Sep 13 (2007) 10:50PM  

jinp, i am not sure how valid those test results are. there is a thread on head-fi with a link to a german RMAA test that shows different results in the frequency response. the main issue is that that guys test is with no load. the different output stage of the classic could react differently when it has no load. i'm sure we'll see more tests, though.




Lacene
Location: Standing Here, Confused By Your
Comments: 830
Sep 13 (2007) 11:25PM  

Didn't Apple release firmware updates for the 2G Nano, 2G Shuffle, 5.5G iPod, iTunes 7, and even their iPhone, after their market releases?? I don't see why they won't release updates for their new iPods as well, if they can find ways to clean up the slugishness....




b2m

Comments: 36
Sep 14 (2007) 10:56AM  

Just noticed:
[Linky]

Up to how many stuff per gigabyte can I put on my iPod:

Songs:
Shuffle: 240
Nano: 250
Classic: 250
Touch: 218.75

Photos:
Nano: 875
80GB Classic: 312.5
160GB Classic: 156.25
Touch: 1250

Videos:
Nano: 1h
Classic: 1.25h
Touch: 1.25h

Man, I don't dislike Apple at all, but why do they pull these numbers out of their asses. I can unterstand that they want to give a rough number how many stuff fits on a player but why not assume the same size for all media? The iPod classic photo thing is most certainly a copy & paste error, I know.




LiQuiD_FuSioN

Comments: 113
Sep 14 (2007) 06:31PM  

What I think about the iPod Classic 160GB so far:

-UI is definitely a little slow
-To: Apple.. Songs without album art - either remove the "blank music note" cover or just display the ID3 tag only, please! (older iPods did this, so why not with the iPod Classic?)
-Why can't I display the current time on top anymore? It just says "Now Playing"..
-Why can't I drag the older games I purchased off of iTunes? (I suspect this to be fixed later with an update, unless..)
-Touch sensitive isn't.. very sensitive to say the least
-What's up with the audio podcasts? It doesn't change album art graphics when going to the next track anymore (again, this wasn't a problem for the 5-5.5G iPods)

+I love how it's thinner than my previous 60GB iPod 5G
+Love how I can click on an album and it displays the track lists
+Love how I can finally play those video podcasts I got piled up
+Nicer and brighter display (but it's probably not that much different from the 5.5G). It's much better than the 5G's display though!
[ edited Sep 14 (2007) 06:32PM ]




dunkin

Comments: 1
Sep 14 (2007) 09:00PM  

While the majority of the new nano's menus do load a little slower than the 1G nano's menu, the Music and Photo submenus load faster. This surprised me. The delay is isn’t huge and is probably less than an eight of a second. I'll take the small delay and the new menus with the eye candy over the old menus any day.

I have about 80 albums on my nano and coverflow works fine once the nano has cached the covers.





bob2300NX

Comments: 42
Sep 15 (2007) 01:20AM  

Just pulled the trigger on a 80gb. Went from 8gb zen microphoto to this; I likes it. Man though apple is like nike. They could probably make the metal back very scracth resistant by putting a protective coat or something (they can do alot they got the $$$$) but I doubt they will do it since they want people to upgrade often.

My ipod already has scratches. It has literally been sitting on my desk; and I didnt drag it or anything. I put it on a plastic bag so it would resist the chance of scratchage.
Still like it though lol.




LiQuiD_FuSioN

Comments: 113
Sep 15 (2007) 04:47AM  

You put your iPod Classic 80GB in a plastic bag?!

I just took my 60GB out its plastic casing and replaced it with my 160GB. Surprisingly, it fits even better with it in. The 60GB was actually cramped inside!

Apple was right when they give the dimensions on their website. It certainly IS thinner when you set them side-by-side. Don't mean to be an Apple fan boy though, lol. After all, I do own two Karmas (one in 2003, and other in 2005), a Rio S10 (picked it up at a pawn shop), Rio Riot, Rio CE2100, and Rio Volt SP-90!




stabbb

Comments: 3
Sep 15 (2007) 05:20AM  

I was thinking about selling my D2 and purchasing 80gb ipod classic (not that I don't like my D2, i just want to check out ipod) at the end of 2007 or next year, but I just found that new ipods won't work on linux. Mainly I use ubuntu although I also have WinXp. Blocking other OSes is f...ed up. So f..k apple




Steve

Comments: 1197
Sep 15 (2007) 10:54AM  

Wow, so the new ipods do suck..that's great news!




bob2300NX

Comments: 42
Sep 15 (2007) 01:12PM  

LOL; Luquid Fusion; I just set it on the plastic bag (to try to avoid scratches) while I was at my desk.

Steve: While I agree taking Linux out is stupid. I dont get how they suck? They only suck in that respect if you have Linux.

I wish there was more compition; I remember the days of the Rio Carbon; there was alot of compitition back then. This site had ALOT of updates. But now compition is really lacking. Even before the 6G (5G); I felt compition was lacking-just because of the few choices for other players. I mean if you walked into bestbuy you would see like 2-3 high capacity players. Can we blame Apple? I think not there a company and to make money is there natural objective.




Steve

Comments: 1197
Sep 15 (2007) 02:40PM  

Just teasing really, but on a more serious note regarding your comments on competition: I think there's a few reasons for it. First, I think Apples disproportionately dominant position does stifle competition to a large degree, it just doesn't leave other companies a lot of room to grow and take risks. That's really the main thing that bothers me about the ipod, I think it's overly popular for what it actually is. I know 'some' people will disagree with that, and there's really nothing but market forces at work here, but still the market is not in an overall healthy state with one company so dominant. Some people will argue it's because the ipod is that much better than everything else, but I don't agree. Is McDonalds the highest quality food there is? Is AOL the best ISP? Market forces rarely choose good for good's sake. They are quite different in character and have more to do with the lowest common denominator and a group-think mentality than unsurpassed quality. Not that the ipod is garbage, but it has serious limitations that belie it's position in the marketplace. But enough of that. Another reason I think the industry is less dynamic now than then is because it's currently in transition from hard drive to flash. High amounts of flash are still relatively expensive, and presents a high risk for companies already weekened by an unbalanced market. As flash prices decline, i'm sure we'll see a corresponding amount of innovation to accompany it. Even now, there are compelling players coming out. The Zen is a huge step in the right direction. Creatives self-chosen limitations not withstanding. The Insignia Pilot, aside from it style or lack of style, is a real user's dream player. The Samsung P2 has a lot of interesting new features, and i'm sure we'll be seeing more. Even the Chinese players are starting to stand up instead of crawl. I think there's interesting times ahead, if Apple doesn't kill it for everybody but themselves.

[ edited Sep 15 (2007) 02:42PM ]




Bigmike34

Comments: 62
Sep 15 (2007) 07:05PM  

Well Apple released a firmware update today and the early word is that its fixed the laggy menus & coverflow..




DapHunter

Comments: 82
Sep 16 (2007) 12:07AM  

Well, I did it.
I ordered a 16GB touch.
I am now Darth-DapHunter

I played with it at the Apple store and it is just totally sweet.
I am taking a big move switching to the iPod, I hope it is worth it.

The release of the iRiver Clix 8GB really pushed me over the edge.




Steve

Comments: 1197
Sep 16 (2007) 12:44AM  

The least you could have done was steal the display model instead of ordering one. Try to think about the consequences of your actions next time, ok?




bob2300NX

Comments: 42
Sep 16 (2007) 01:27AM  

Bigmike34; what is the number for the firmware? I thought I updated just yesterday at like 8pm, so I shouldnt have the update, but then I went to the itunes "check for update" and it says im up too date. I am confused! lol






Scoto

Comments: 63
Sep 16 (2007) 11:33AM  

Well, I did it.
I ordered a 16GB touch.

Me too Dap-hunter, The coverflow and interface of the touch is very fast( must have a faster processor?). I still can't beliveve I spent 400.00 for 16 gigs, but the unit is very sweet. I really did want to rip the display unit out of the store and run, I would be the first person to have one ! I could entertain my self in the clink then , lol.





BBD
Location: Where all the ladies @
Comments: 81
Sep 16 (2007) 01:26PM  

@ bob2300NX: I believe the new FW is ver. 1.0.1.

Even though I'm a longtime owner of an iRiver H320 (along with an iAudio U3 and Sansa e280), I'm likely gonna go for the 80GB classic. While there are (and I fear, always will be) shortcomings with (cr)Apple DAPs, it's still a well-supported, simple machine. I'm headed to BB next week to make sure the sound Q is acceptable, then likely to cash in the 3-yr. extended warranty on my ol' iRiver and switch to the 'pod....

...mixed feelings, nonetheless....




Steve

Comments: 1197
Sep 16 (2007) 01:48PM  

I really did want to rip the display unit out of the store and run,


Well, at least your heart is in the right place.




HipHopScribe

Comments: 126
Sep 16 (2007) 02:15PM  

BBD is right, the FW is 1.0.1

Cover Flow still takes a second to load, maybe it's a little faster, the rest of the menus definitely seem faster.




bob2300NX

Comments: 42
Sep 16 (2007) 08:48PM  

Oh ok; so maybe thats why it never seem that slow to me. I bought mine on the 14th, they must of had an update that day--1.0.1. So from day one it was running the new firmware. Im happy. I bought a case to temparly get by till bestskinsever makes a skin for the 6G





DapHunter

Comments: 82
Sep 17 (2007) 08:45AM  

I am still a bit concerned about the browsing functionality being somewhat crippled, but it will be worth the risk if I can read basic info and look like a nerd. That is imprtant to me.

I guess at this point I am just ready todrop the whole "i hate apple" mantra and get away from fanboy-ism as well as anti-fanboyism.

For me, I just want what works and appeals to me.

Maybe it is time to consider iPods DAPS as well?




koala72
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Comments: 20
Sep 22 (2007) 10:19AM  

Cant believe people on this site are rushing out and buying the touch, i thought you guys had brains! Why wouldnt you wait around another 5-6 months then the price will drop and the capacity will be higher (but they wont add features, thats going to far for Apple)







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